tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8004604839067397239.post3601310777111903580..comments2020-05-13T23:37:57.998-07:00Comments on Shaken Faithless: Seven Things Atheists Get WrongRabbi Adam Jacobshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16073199951748971303noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8004604839067397239.post-5161791491686855322015-06-23T13:15:24.605-07:002015-06-23T13:15:24.605-07:00Thanks for your comments. Here's my response:...Thanks for your comments. Here's my response:<br /><br />#1. "Scientists have questioned the Creation Myths that religionists have propounded so the religionists back away from it."<br /><br />Who's backed away from it?<br /><br />"But the religious asserts morality based on sacred and infallible nature of his bible. When we show the errancy of the Creation Myths, then the moral claims lose their authority."<br /><br />What do you base your "morality" on? And in what ways have you shown any "errancy?" <br /><br />#2. The 10th commandment is about not coveting. So I'm not sure what point you're making here.<br /><br />Re: the Cain and Able episode. Judaism believes that there was a (basic) moral code that existed before the Torah. Cain and Able were aware of it. But either way, without an absolute standard by which to judge right and wrong there simply is no such thing as morality. It just becomes a series of preferences - none better than any others - and if that is the case you ought not judge anyone's choices as you can't know that yours are superior.<br /><br /># 3. Yes, he's absolutely correct in asserting this.<br /><br />#4. Are you able to cogently outline what the believer's evidence is for the existence of God (the evidence that you don't accept)? Could it be that you're not all that familiar with it?<br /><br />There is no such thing as a monotheist being "atheist to all other gods." In our conception, God is the basis for all of reality - existence itself. In our view there simply is nothing else to be atheist against. <br /><br />In my experience, atheists are every bit as biased as theists (if not more so) and it's a very rare person on either side who would be willing to alter ther viewpoint.<br /><br />#5. Based on what I said above (#2) you have no means by which to assert that your "morality" is superior to ISIS. You can not like it, but that's just a subjective (and quite meaningless) perspective given your starting point. In any event, obviously religions make differing claims about what is right and wrong and each needs to be evaluated based on the strength of their claim.<br /><br />#6. I don't know who "Brahi" is but even if Catholicism made (a small number) of bad decisions regarding some scientists, it's nonetheless a simple fact that all of the scientists - the ones who invented what we now call science - were theists. They saw no contradiction and most religious people even now see no contradiction. It's the atheists who do.<br /><br />#7. If I were in a Muslim country I would have no issue with any Muslim imagery anywhere. If I were in India, I would be fine with Vishnu on the currency but I'm not sure what this has to do with what David wrote in #7. <br /><br /> <br /><br />Rabbi Adam Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16073199951748971303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8004604839067397239.post-48194966481483476872015-06-22T16:41:20.793-07:002015-06-22T16:41:20.793-07:00Here is an agnostic perspective on the 7 myths:
...Here is an agnostic perspective on the 7 myths:<br /><br /><br />1. Religion Is About Morality, Not Creation Myths<br /><br />Religion is about many things, including creation myths AND about morality. Scientists have questioned the Creation Myths that religionists have propounded so the religionists back away from it. But the religious asserts morality based on sacred and infallible nature of his bible. When we show the errancy of the Creation Myths, then the moral claims lose their authority. <br /> <br />2. Religion Is the Foundation of All Morality, Not Merely an Expression of It<br /><br />Foundation of all morality? Really? How so? You mean the foundation is the 10th commandment? What does the 10th Commandment say about moral issues of the day? About abortion? About Capital Punishment, about Gay Marriage, about genital mutilation, about human environmental pollution?<br /><br />Did we need the 10 Commandments to know that murder is bad? If your answer is 'yes', consider the biblical story of Cain and Able. When Cain killed Able, and God came and asked 'where is your brother Able?', Cain tried to lie and say he did not know. "Am I my brother's keeper?' said Cain. The question is, why did Cain lie? He did not have the benefit of the 10 Commandement, as these law will not have been given for another thousand years. If he did not know that murder was wrong, he should have said to God: "I killed my brother because he pissed me off. Now let's go have lunch!" Yet Cain somehow knew that killing was wrong. How did he know this? What was HIS moral foundation? <br /><br />3. Religion Was the Foundation of Society, Not an Addition to It<br /><br />What?<br /><br />4. Atheists Do Believe<br /><br />Of course we do! We believe that God does not exist. We believe so given the evidence. You also believe. You believe that the God of the Torah is the one true God. You are atheists with regards to all other Gods. So?<br /><br />The difference between us as believing atheists is that we are willing to change our minds given convincing evidence. You are not!<br /> <br />5. Science Can’t Teach Us Right from Wrong<br /><br />True. Maybe. So? Can religion? Whose religion? Muslim religion? Judaism? Mormonism? Hindu religion? <br /><br />ISIS brand of Islam will teach me right from wrong?<br /><br />No thank you! <br /><br />6. Religion Complements Science, It Doesn’t Oppose It<br /><br />Really?<br /><br />So the Catholics were not burning scientists like Brahi on a stake simply because the scientists did not believe that the Earth was not the center of our solar system much less the universe? <br /><br />Or Religion was supportive when science talks about the Theory of Evolution and origin of Species? <br /><br /><br /><br />7. Ignorance of Religion Is Ignorance of History, For Atheists and Everyone<br /><br />We as Atheists are not ignoring Religion, we are trying to expose it for what it is. <br />As an atheist/agnostic myself, I have no problems in the imagery of the 10 Commandments, but have trouble seeing it on the wall of a courtroom. Imagine I was a Muslim, coming before the judgement of that Court. How happy I be in seeing that. Imagine, dear Rabbi, you coming to a court and seeing the Allah symbol of Muslims on the wall of the Courtroom. How confident would you be at the Judge's verdict if your adversary was a Muslim? <br /><br />How would you feel if you carried currency in your pocket with the words "In Vishnu we trust"?<br /><br />Or say you came to a government office to get your driver's license renewed, and you saw a statue of Yezid holding the severed and bloody head of Ali the prophet in his hands (BTW I have seen this imagery many times when I travel to some Islamic countries)?<br /><br />Having said that, I am not opposed to imagery. Some religious imagery is pleasing to the eye, such as, for example, Jesus healing the wounded. But what is pleasing to me might be unpleasant to you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com